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nzjetboating.com Forums => Projects => Topic started by: Kakapo76 on January 09, 2020, 16:12:57 PM

Title: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 09, 2020, 16:12:57 PM
Well guys and gals, decided to try the back to the future route with a new engine build. I picked up a J30a for $500 and had it shipped down to Rolleston. I have a couple of sets of 38mm Mikuni's that are going to be modified into a multi (6) carb set ITB style.

I have stripped the engine of all of the unnecessary gear (this weighed 23kg!  :o ) and by unnecessary I mean intake manifolds, runners, cast iron exhaust, EGR crap,  loom etc.

Obviously I need to build manifolds etc etc- will report on the net weight loss eventually.

The plan is to modify a Chevy v6 dizzy to mate up with the intake cam on the Honda- its got a nice bracket I can weld to the new dizzy and I will control spark with old school vacuum and mechanical advance. Just waiting for Amazon to deliver this.
 
I am going to arrange the carbs in a sort of cross flow style so there is a almost straight shot from the carb down the runner into the head. This will increase the height of the engine so will be faffing about trying to make it as tight as possible but still ok to work on.

Cooling will be closed loop with a HE.

So far the engine is proving to be as compact as my turbo toyota so am going to see if I can make it as light as possible and as simple as possible- Mohawk this is a work of Homage  ;) I have been listening ....

I will track the build as per normal and am happy for any suggestions as this is mainly for fun-

The specs state that this particular model has 210 HP at 5500 and 246 torque at 4600 rpm This would make it similar to my turbo 1800- so will make a great comparison.

The Goals:

1. Do something I cant find documented on the net (Bike carby v6)
2. Make a small compact v6 that is so simple its almost reinventing the wheel.
3. See if a modded Colorado can handle a small v6 without spitting the dummy.
4. Make 4 cylinder turbo hp, naturally aspirated with the same or less weight all up.
5. Fit it into my existing boat for comparative hooning.
6. Last but not least make a nasty sounding ITB roaring , exhaust snarling v6 like Honda never did- I am thinking v6 Jaguar crackle and pop



Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 09, 2020, 18:49:47 PM
I hope you didn't order the dizzy for the odd fire v6 chev...(the older one 90 deg without balance shaft)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 09, 2020, 18:53:14 PM
Is that the old 1998ish model j30? That had dizzy already?
I picked up this later model one for $100 and will do similar project (one day) but will leave injected
 
Have a Saco impeller (212 turbo style) and a longer wear ring and spacer for Hamilton single stage that shouldatch nicely
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 09, 2020, 19:23:04 PM
Cool project. Will be following. Vacuum advance is redundant in a marine engine situation. Go full mechanical if you can or disable the vac.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 09, 2020, 20:54:56 PM
Hi Jimmy

I misspoke- checked my Amazon account and this is the one I ordered.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06VV49N6N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wanted an internal coil as well- the goal is to cut down on everything to a bare minimum- it was cheap so hopefully will do the job. I can block off the vacuum port easily.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 09, 2020, 20:58:47 PM
Hi Jeff,

Yes, mine is the older model with the dizzy but it was electronically controlled so no advance so far as I can tell? I wanted the j30a4 to get the integrated exhaust port heads but down here we are getting absolutely bent over on price- Local Honda wrecker wanted $1800 for a j35 and $1500 for a j30  ii

This will be a bit of a Frankenstein - it should be fun though.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 09, 2020, 21:10:06 PM
The later j30a4 has caps in back of heads where a dizzy can be attached but I don't think the camshaft has slot or drive for dizzy like the older putt bomb j30 does?
What are the carbs off? Yamaha?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 09, 2020, 22:28:51 PM
Yep mine has the slotted camshaft- the a4 doesn't, so that would mean pulling the cam out and machining a cam, another level of complication I want to avoid and the main reason I went for the putz version. Carbs off a gsxr 750.

I looked at a heap of 4age builds and while lots of people went with R1 carbs (40mm) there was a lot running off r6 carbs (36 mm) and the only advantage to the bigger carb was performance at very high rpm-8k plus, so my logic dictated that the smaller carb would be fine because I intend to top out at peak hp 5500 rpm, I also believe the slightly smaller carb will better behave at low speed.

Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 10, 2020, 10:27:42 AM
Sorry i asked on your other thread..... are you sure that distributor rotates the right direction for mounting off the back of the head ?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 10, 2020, 10:32:55 AM
I think Mohawk is right. The cam is rotating anti-clockwise at the back of the head and Chev distributors rotate clockwise. The pickup will probably work but I don't think the advance will. Well spotted Mohawk.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 10, 2020, 14:33:05 PM
Bollocks! That's a pain if you are right- good spotting indeed- I ordered it without the engine in front of me and didn't think about it at all-

Any suggestions as to a Dizzy anyone that turns in the correct direction? I don't really want to buy a race dizzy so anything from a six cylinder works for me.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 10, 2020, 14:49:30 PM
Ford or jeep i think... but will need too shorten them overall
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 10, 2020, 14:51:18 PM
Triggering should be ok but advance will be back too front.... might be able too flip over weight plate but not ideal
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 10, 2020, 15:03:36 PM
A VERY brief search shows the Ford 3.8 V6 is counter-clockwise. Triple check this info. Pertronix are decent distributors but not sure if they do one for that engine.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 10, 2020, 16:15:15 PM
Look at running it off the front or toothed belt on the drive block if your stuck. 
Jeff belt drove one on his second build but not my cup of tea
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 10, 2020, 16:36:36 PM
I found this one in good old Sharkey's aka Silvester V8 Performance in Christchurch- its a Mallory- full mechanical advance- they pulled it off the shelf and the advance on moves when it's rotated counterclockwise and not when rotated the other way.- so I think its the go- there is no choice out there and everything from the States is super pricey.

http://www.silvesterv8.co.nz/products.php?product=Dual%252dPoint-Distributor-Ford-V6-3.8-Litre
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 10, 2020, 16:39:51 PM
Hey Jeff,

My engine seems to have the ring gear on the torque converter not the flexplate ie it's missing... did you use a different ring gear on your v6? If so what did it come off?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 10, 2020, 16:53:00 PM
Look at running it off the front or toothed belt on the drive block if your stuck. 
Jeff belt drove one on his second build but not my cup of tea
That was on build # 3 mohawk....
Get with the times....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 10, 2020, 16:54:53 PM
Hey Jeff,

My engine seems to have the ring gear on the torque converter not the flexplate ie it's missing... did you use a different ring gear on your v6? If so what did it come off?
Most of the Hondas are like that
I used a flywheel. One off a k20 or k24 bolts on
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 10, 2020, 18:02:43 PM
I think you'll get a Pertronix electronic kit for that to convert to electronic unless you like points.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on January 11, 2020, 02:07:41 AM
might be able too flip over weight plate but not ideal

I checked a spare Chev HEI earlier, and the plate the weights sit/slide on is not symmetric (-on mine anyway).  If the weights were flipped over, I don't think they would be supported properly and may not move properly.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on January 13, 2020, 12:41:58 PM
V6 Mitsi or 6 cyl Datsun 240z

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/mitsubishi/other/listing-2479407829.htm?rsqid=ffa027810124462ab9718c0b32820492-007

https://www.google.com/search?q=mitsubishi+2.5+v6+distributor&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTkM2SmP_mAhVHfX0KHW8qDHwQ_AUoAXoECAwQAw&biw=1093&bih=480#imgrc=iRGKg73E2QJmVM:
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 13, 2020, 14:15:26 PM
Which v6 Mitsubishi was carburetted Warrick?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 13, 2020, 15:29:20 PM
Hi Warwick- thanks for the info- I had a quick look, these all look electronically advanced?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 13, 2020, 20:18:15 PM
yea i think they were.... i spent alot of time searching and it was ford or jeep for the win..... or a v12 and use every second hole .

if you used a v12 dizzy with no advance and spliced the plug wires so each plug got fired twice it might work. 
the second spark would be 30 deg advanced if the first was at 0 .
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 13, 2020, 21:00:33 PM
yea i think they were.... i spent alot of time searching and it was ford or jeep for the win..... or a v12 and use every second hole .

if you used a v12 dizzy with no advance and spliced the plug wires so each plug got fired twice it might work. 
the second spark would be 30 deg advanced if the first was at 0 .
No mohawk that wouldn't work, would be 60 deg as dizzy rotates at half crank speed so 30 deg on dizzy is 60 deg on crank.
You could 2x 3 cylinder dizzy...one on each head...
No don't try that Kakapo...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on January 13, 2020, 21:46:24 PM
Which v6 Mitsubishi was carburetted Warrick?

Sorry Jeff I don't remember. I Thought the first of the Mitsi Diamante where a mechanical advance dizzy. Sorry if I put you guys crook.....(I was up at 4am to check the Cray Pots)

OK so the British triumph 6cyl, Zephyr n Zodiac 6cyl, Volvo Penta 6cyl and Datsun 6cyl engines all had anti clockwise mechanical advance distributors. You will need to get them graphed (Set the advance curve) to suite the Honda for initial, mid range and all in Max Mechanical advance. this is done on a Distributor advance graph machine
Ford v6 Holden and Valiant In Line sixes are all "Clock Wise" rotation that I can see.......
This will be a fun project for sure


THESE MACHINES ARE A COOL BIT OF KIT AND FUN TO USE
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 15, 2020, 11:58:35 AM
Making some progress.

Got in touch with a very nice chap that has a j30a carbed and dizzied in his 4.3 Alloy Boat he took a good 4.3 Chev v6 out (heavy as sin) and swapped in the Honda. Using a Weber side draft and the dizzy below and triggering the vtec he said it goes awesome- much lighter, quieter and idles better. he also mentioned that the install was super compact and the whole boat is better balanced and once you turn up the advance the j30 responded massively (its very conservative from factory) and he believes it has better than factory power- he is a mechanic and owns a garage so good enough for me.

I have finally nailed down a dizzy- going to use this one. (see pic) It fits Triumph/ Jag/ Ford 6 cylinders and is mapped correctly. This is what he used and it worked straight out of the box.

I am also going to get a ring gear welded to my flex-plate- its the cheapest, lightest and simplest option about $150 all up machined and balanced.

Because Honda used the same block in their outboard motors (200-225hp models) they have a very compact fully jacketed cast alloy manifold that almost bolts on- I will need to make a sandwich plate to make it work which means an additional gasket but they are pretty cheap second hand in the US and way easier/cheaper than me tig-ing up cast alloy elbows (which are stupid expensive btw) Also they have a port for an o2 wideband so tuning will be that much easier. See pic below.



Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 15, 2020, 13:58:58 PM
If the outboard uses the same block why do you need the adaptor plate? Still a pretty good option for manifolds though.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 15, 2020, 14:27:31 PM
A blown up OB could supplie ecu and all you need too run couldnt it ?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 15, 2020, 14:34:56 PM
We looked into the honda outboard manifolds but everything was a bit different, ports and bolt pattern/spacing. Will need a nice thick adapter that also feeds water into the manifolds.
If I remember the outboard manifolds were surprisingly cheap brand new genuine? But then you still need hi risers.....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 15, 2020, 15:31:55 PM
The exhaust side of the outboard heads is a different casting- same on the intake side but has all the water ports added to make water cooling through the heads. pics below.

1st pic is marine exhaust with ports for water
2nd is intake side- same on both marine and car
3rd is exhaust on car version.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 15, 2020, 15:33:47 PM
I guess then its loom work, electronics and I may as well stay with the car ecu even though its putz
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 15, 2020, 15:49:33 PM
We looked into the honda outboard manifolds but everything was a bit different, ports and bolt pattern/spacing. Will need a nice thick adapter that also feeds water into the manifolds.
If I remember the outboard manifolds were surprisingly cheap brand new genuine? But then you still need hi risers.....

They are cheap- $130 us each new or about $60 kiwi used.

I don't get why you need to run water into the spacer- I am running a closed loop system with a HE so will run a separate feed to the exhaust from the  warm water coming off the HE- I want to seal those ports. The gent in Methven is going great guns with a simple 12mm plate with countersunk bolts into the head and 6 new tapped holes for the manifold to attach to- so far so good. I think he is running a water box style exhaust and  that eliminates the need for hi risers. The pics he sent me don't quite show it.

It will need a bit of careful port work- there is a discrepancy on the ports- they don't space the same but its a matter of careful work with a die grinder to create a nice-ish transition.

I have attached his pics- be nice its not my boat.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 15, 2020, 16:23:03 PM
Yeah I wondered how the single IDF would go to feed enough fuel/air to the v6?  Must go good!
You are right kakapo, you don't need to feed water in through the spacer plate, it would just save drilling holes in the exhaust manifolds.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 15, 2020, 16:39:22 PM
He's running a scott 7.5 2 stage and with vtec engaged its pulling 5k rpm wot, he's playing with the jetting and reckons there is more to be had- the engine is super de-tuned in the Odyssey and can run much harder, I will probably have to run a much coarser pitch in my bullet.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 15, 2020, 17:26:45 PM
Go the spacer plate! It's been done before and those manifolds are too cheap, compact and easy to turn down.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 16, 2020, 17:17:51 PM
So I have located a couple of manifolds- great price $100 NZD for the pair- the shipping, however, is insane! $290 NZD is this to be expected?
Coming from the eastern USA.

Anyone have a drop-ship address or something I can utilize- these should fit into a fat shoe box and weigh around 8kg ish.

Any suggestions are welcome- an alternative is i send to my rellies in Canada and wait till I am going back in July?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 16, 2020, 17:41:38 PM
Chev, Lexus or Ford log type manifolds are way bigger, heavier and are around  $1400 NZD. The shipping price does peel the lips off the gums but still not baaaad all up...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 16, 2020, 19:52:04 PM
yeah feeling a bit of a tight-ass tbh but bit tired of the money pit. I will just have to suck it up.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 16, 2020, 22:37:17 PM
does shipping include import tax, gst and crap ?  or just the cost plus shiping cost ?
I just bought a fishing reel off ebay... 200nz and 100 nz shiping and handling on the ebay add.
 there was another 130 nz bucks added for gst and customs at the checkout  C""
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 16, 2020, 22:40:00 PM
a blade was 120 including shipping got another 40 bucks added
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: MRM on January 16, 2020, 22:40:25 PM
yeah feeling a bit of a tight-ass tbh but bit tired of the money pit. I will just have to suck it up.

Sign up to youshop and you'll have a us address all of your own
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on January 17, 2020, 17:36:12 PM
I just bought a fishing reel off ebay... 200nz and 100 nz shiping and handling on the ebay add.
there was another 130 nz bucks added for gst and customs at the checkout

a blade was 120 including shipping got another 40 bucks added

Err, something very wrong with both of those - a 43% rate and a 33% rate.  Also, at $300 and $120, both should have been free of customs charges anyway...

Have a read of: https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/online-shopping/ (https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/online-shopping/)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 17, 2020, 18:08:29 PM
Are you sure thats current paul ?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on January 17, 2020, 18:15:15 PM
It doesnt realy matter what you call it or who collects it or weather its right or wrong... its still heaps and something too keep in mind... this fro youship
https://www.nzpost.co.nz/tools/youshop/youshop-pricing/gst-import-duty
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on January 17, 2020, 19:57:02 PM
Are you sure thats current paul?
The date at the bottom of the page is 5 weeks ago.


Also: https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/duty-and-gst/whats-my-duty-estimator/ (https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/duty-and-gst/whats-my-duty-estimator/)
Attached image shows the data you provided.

Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: MRM on January 18, 2020, 07:59:26 AM
Your numbers do seem a bit weird Mohawk.

From Youshop:
If you’re buying from overseas retailers and shipping to your YouShop address, the retailer will not
charge GST at the point of purchase (as they will not be aware that the items’ final destination is NZ).
Instead, NZ Post will collect the GST on all purchases (irrespective of value) on behalf of the New
Zealand Government, when you pay for your shipping to NZ through YouShop.
If the value of your consignment* is over $1,000 then Customs may also collect duty (and GST on the
amount of that duty) at the border.
*A consignment is one or more parcels that have arrived together in New Zealand addressed to the
same address/person

Anyway..... hows the carb conversion going Kakapo?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: swifty on January 18, 2020, 10:04:10 AM
gst of imports should be as below
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 18, 2020, 10:07:22 AM
Quick update- pulled the trigger on a set of manifolds- $44.95 USD for the pair  *-) Got them shipped to a mate in Vancouver- shipping was much better about a $100 He is going to see if he can get me some options to send back here or I will pick them up in July, not too stressed about the timeframe as I can use the existing cast manifolds to get the engine running.

Ordered a  triumph dizzy from Classic Cars in Wanaka- on its way. Going to send the flexplate on Monday to a chap in Christchurch to machine a lip and weld on a ring gear - my lathe is in storage. I Will get SSS to machine me up a drive block once the flexplate is back from the electroplaters.

I am also very tempted to make a second intake manifold and run a blow through carby setup with a 600cfm Holley, it's making a big comeback in the drag scene in the US because it eliminates the need for an intercooler (weight and plumbing) due to the fuel atomizing and simultaneously cooling the charge thus holding back knock. On a conservative tune say 8-10 pounds of a boost this would give this engine in the region of 300hp on a smallish turbo which anecdotally seems easily handled by the stock internals. Once the exhaust manifolds arrive I am going to try to make it a swappable engine- call it R&D

This will be a slow burn project, I have a heap on so will update with pics when I have progress. Cheers for the interest.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: swifty on January 18, 2020, 10:30:25 AM
Water cooled manifolds for $44.95 USD ?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 18, 2020, 13:04:07 PM
Yes indeedy  ;) I negotiated a wee discount- but even at full price, they were only $60 US it was simply the shipping, etc that made it a bit unattractive initially- I found a lot available- prices ranged from about 30 us through to $115 us for new old stock. If you are interested in a set I can send some links to the places I found.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on January 19, 2020, 07:28:22 AM
I'm not trying to discourage you Kakapo but I suggest not doing a blow through carb turbo on this.
The "drag race" guys don't care about starting, idle, transitional, mid range let alone holding full load for more than 10 seconds.
You have no way of retarding timing under boost?
The j37 (same physical size/weight as j30) is rated at 300hp....

But keep at the project! Good work
Let's see your intake manifold/s
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: rogee on January 22, 2020, 18:56:49 PM
Bloody typical. ..starts off as a budget build and nek minute...500 hp and melted crap everywhere. Theres a heap of options much better suited than blow through crap. Vq35 perhaps.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on January 22, 2020, 20:39:13 PM
Bloody typical. ..starts off as a budget build and nek minute...500 hp and melted crap everywhere. Theres a heap of options much better suited than blow through crap. Vq35 perhaps.

Easy Tiger, its a forum, you know guys/ gals chat, throw out ideas some great others... whatever- I am sure there are heaps of better options but I like to muck about that's why it's my hobby, not my frickking job. Jeff was right- I hadn't considered the timing curve necessary for boost so its a no go under the parameters I set of easy, light, cheap and reliable with hardly any wiring. If you read the posts properly I was looking at 300hp- 500 needs a built block and lots of other supporting stuff.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: rogee on January 24, 2020, 18:43:23 PM
It was a generalisation. Nothing personal. Your boat. Your rules. Get into it.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on January 25, 2020, 08:22:24 AM
IF you one day decide to do a blow through turbo set-up whether in a boat or whatever, MSD do a boost timing module that will reference boost and retard timing.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: cameronbezett on February 06, 2020, 16:42:50 PM
Where are you getting the manifolds through? Started making some for my j30 but they seem like a better option.
Cheers
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 06, 2020, 23:33:49 PM
Ebay

Try these guys:

https://www.ebay.com/usr/qualityboatsalvage818

They will answer emails and good to deal with. The only issue is shipping so if you have a contact or can sort some form of dropshipping?

Part numbers:18120-ZY3-010ZA and 18110-ZY3-010ZA  for each side

good luck.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: cameronbezett on February 07, 2020, 09:08:06 AM
Cheers for that, will have a hunt around
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: spinner on February 17, 2020, 21:27:30 PM
From earlier post... "I don't get why you need to run water into the spacer- I am running a closed loop system with a HE so will run a separate feed to the exhaust from the  warm water coming off the HE- I want to seal those ports. The gent in Methven is going great guns with a simple 12mm plate with countersunk bolts into the head and 6 new tapped holes for the manifold to attach to- so far so good. I think he is running a water box style exhaust and  that eliminates the need for hi risers. The pics he sent me don't quite show it."

Can anyone explain "water box style exhaust" , if they don't go above the water line I can not see how water can not get back into engine?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 17, 2020, 21:41:48 PM
Jet skis run them all the time- quite convoluted and they make it super hard for water to back up to the engine- especially on a two-stroke where there is no exhaust valve to shut. Sort of a combo of a muffler with multiple chambers and no direct straight runs- it's hard to explain but has a combination of high and low outlets, baffles etc.

Maybe someone out there has a picture of one cut open?

I checked on the Methven chap- he is actually just running a muffler not a waterbox .
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on February 18, 2020, 07:29:14 AM
This is the internals of a jetski water box.
The design of these look to be very restrictive with the flow bouncing around inside 3 separate chambers, interconnected by small diameter pipe.... while 1/2 full with water. Yet they can still get a 1500cc engine to produce 310hp  ???
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on February 18, 2020, 07:40:40 AM
Quote
  specially on a two-stroke where there is no exhaust valve to shut. 

Hey Kakapo, using the exhaust valves to keep water out of an engine is going to end in tears  C"" Ask Mohawk about this  O)))) O)))) O))))
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 18, 2020, 08:38:14 AM
yeah, Ross, I knew when I wrote that someone would pick up on it-  O)))) and it only works one 4th of the time.... l-l

Although- I ran a jet ski with its water box removed for years (very freaking loud) and never had an issue so it is maybe more an issue of how a jet boat sits when it's not moving- backside low. I don't really understand how hydraulic-ing works - is it a function of the engine shutting off or a wave of water pushing back up the exhaust? An explanation would be helpful I think?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on February 18, 2020, 08:52:41 AM
The water box is a muffler.
It is not to stop your engine hydraucing. Although having multiple chambers helps stop water surging back up exhaust.
Some engines will turn backwards when turned off or trying to start with too much timing which can suck water up exhaust
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 18, 2020, 10:17:02 AM
So the best bet for water ingestion prevention would be one of those rubber flaps like Ross added to his exhaust outlet? or a high exit?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 18, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
Can anyone explain "water box style exhaust" , if they don't go above the water line I can not see how water can not get back into engine?

A lot of the water in the water box has been injected into the exhaust flow post headers so not actually coming from the rear or transom- its a big part of the sound deadening properties as well as engine bay cooling.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 18, 2020, 10:20:56 AM

Some engines will turn backwards when turned off or trying to start with too much timing which can suck water up exhaust

Any examples of engines prone to this?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on February 18, 2020, 12:18:59 PM
Any and all can turn backwards on shut down. It depends in what part of the stroke the piston/s are. If the engine is shut down and a piston comes into compression without enough momentum to go through the stroke fully, the compression will push the piston back down turning the engine backwards. This can create huge vacuum through an open exhaust valve on another cylinder drawing cooling water back towards and into the cylinder = trouble.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on February 18, 2020, 19:21:48 PM
Yup.. ive injested water tuning carbs on the hose . Idle was stumbling and stalling and playing up for 40 mins cause i was looking at the 4 vaccume guages back too front ..... then last weekend i took a few waves over the transum and a dozen over the side beach launching  ::)   it didnt like starting and knocked and spluttered for 10 mins befor it came right but the oil had gone pretty creamy when i got home... jeffs had a couple do it too.... waves hitting side ways can get past a flapper too i think..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWF8xK2gzH8
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on February 18, 2020, 19:56:38 PM
Killing the ignition when it's at a few thousand RPM, seems to pull more water back to engine.  Always try to idle down before killing ignition.   2c
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on February 18, 2020, 20:02:58 PM
Quote
then last weekend i took a few waves over the transum and a dozen over the side beach launching  ::)   it didnt like starting and knocked and spluttered for 10 mins befor it came right

Love to see a video of that....but would need a few bleeps I imagine.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on February 18, 2020, 20:34:28 PM
Love to see a video of that....but would need a few bleeps I imagine.
nah , the bleeps all started when i got home and found milky oil again  O))))
Most of the water came in while i was parking the truck and the boat was left crashing sideways into the rocks along the beach ... then they started coming over the back while i was drifting around trying too get it started ... the loud ( REALLY LOUD ) single cylinder knocking was abit off putting too  >>@
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on February 18, 2020, 21:36:02 PM
Killing the ignition when it's at a few thousand RPM, seems to pull more water back to engine.  Always try to idle down before killing ignition.   2c
true but , its the "always try" bit that is often not an option for many of us ..
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on February 18, 2020, 22:09:57 PM
 hi-

Come on Kakapo, show us your intake manifold/s?
I wanna see how you cross over the carbs. pop

Iade a 6 cyn one (not honda) but ended up sticking all carbs on one side
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 19, 2020, 08:40:54 AM
Hi Jeff,

That looks pretty cool actually although  stainless might be pretty heavy?

I am suffering from a lack of a workshop currently, all my gear is in storage so things are snail pace. Having said that picked up some alloy bends yesterday (3mm wall thickness) that i will use for the runners and a mate is water jetting a couple of manifold flanges this week which reduces my excuses  ::)

I ended up changing carbies to r6 38mm carbs as my gsxers didn't actually match- for some reason they went from 36mm to an in between size at some stage and I had visually identical sets but different throat sizes. Not too stressed as they will end up on something at some stage.

My plan is to cross over the runners so the right bank will feed from the left side and vice versa. this will give me a symmetrical and relatively compact layout- currently working on re-spacing the carbs slightly wider and blocking the third carb's unused ports- the challenge is to not irreversibly ruin the carb so I could reverses the procedure in the future if necessary.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on February 19, 2020, 09:45:58 AM
You might have some gsxr 600/750 carbs? The 600 ones are 38mm and the 750 ones are 39mm.
Plus they changed both part way through models to include solenoids on the bowls.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on February 26, 2020, 11:20:46 AM
Hi Folks,

I have attached a couple of pdf files of the inlet manifold flanges for the j30a dizzy model- may work for later models but if they are of use to anyone please feel free to use them. The forum won't let me post dxf files so pm me and I would be happy to send them to anyone interested.

Finally got my tig set in the garage so hoping to melt some metal very soon.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on March 19, 2020, 14:21:54 PM
Parts still rolling in and I am fed up with the turbo so out with the old and in with the Old School.

Jeff- What version/ car donor was the subaru starter motor you used on your J35?- The j30a honda one I purchased turned out to be a dud so looking for an alternative?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on March 19, 2020, 21:57:33 PM
I'm not sure what model subaru my one is off? There are a few different types. I only used suby one because my engine never came with Honda one.
I have since bought a new j30 starter for my j30 engine as will be a lot easier to mount as one bolt goes through to engine block so easier to fab mount.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: rogee on March 20, 2020, 07:42:03 AM
95 legacy . The last one i bought new was about 2 hundyfrom the local auto sparkie
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on March 20, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Hi Jeff and Rogee- thanks for the info. Appreciate it. b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on March 31, 2020, 23:12:39 PM
Well, its been a wee while- life has gone completely pear-shaped and to be frank I don't recognize which way is up anymore, and I don't think I am alone in this. I am an essential service but given the assembly rules or the lack thereof, life is surreal as I spend more time working redundancy packages than actually helping families with their bereavement.

Anyhow, this too shall pass and in between crisis' there's an engine that needs love to go into a boat that is currently very unloved!

After wasting a lot of time and money getting the best bike carbs for the v6 I ran into a major snag- my lathe is in storage and I couldn't machine up the fittings to separate the carbs to the correct spacing and was not in the mood to pay a machinist to do the same.

I also had a change in perspective- I still wanted something unique to look at and the 60's vibe I first mentioned way back last year. Enter the Weber Clones- we going 6 pack baby!

I love the sound of IDF carbs and like the idea of one throat per cylinder that can be individually tuned. I like the look and the retro feel.

I am making up the manifold and it should be all done by the weekend- its a bit fiddly as all the runners are different but three hours of cutting and grinding has me ready t  weld tomorrow night. Hopefully, it doesn't warp too bad because it's going to look pretty cool.


Anyhow- thanks to all the guys out there keeping the forum going- let's see if this lockdown can reinvigorate the baord and who knows some great creations may appear-
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on March 31, 2020, 23:14:46 PM
More pics
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 01, 2020, 07:14:30 AM
Cool!
I wondered about the triple IDF setup.
They are cheap enough knockoffs out of china now (make sure you sanitize them)
What size? 45mm?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 08:13:21 AM
I went with 40mm- my research into the murky world of IDF carbs was largely based around VW- not really a good basis for performance tuning  cou
Actually quite interesting little rabbit hole to dive down on youtube most reckon it is easier to control fueling with the smaller venturi at low revs and cruise and given the fact that the unit will limit the revs to 5-6k then I felt that 45 was going to be overkill. It will be interesting.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on April 01, 2020, 08:17:34 AM
Hey guys,

Would you be able to measure the physical size of the engines for me? Im sticking a 3.6 together currently and was going to go the m18a/turbo route, but thinking if the engines are similar size and weight, and I could package it near the same size, I'd maybe try shoehorn a j35 in the hole instead...

And what chch wrecker had a supply of these bad boys?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on April 01, 2020, 08:23:12 AM
Great to see some action  b> b>

Painting got me grumpy yesterday so I started fiddling with this too.....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 08:26:51 AM
I cannot remember the length- it's around 540mm I think- total width with tight exhaust manifold and alternator in stock position is 595mm give or take 15mm. Height from bottom of sump to top of trumpets on the carbs is 760mm

This may change a wee bit depending on your configuration- note my engine is a j30a- I don't know if the j35 is exactly the same.

Engines in CHCH were very expensive I got mine from Auckland- still cheaper with shipping. I paid 500 plus 150 for freight.

Strongs are the Honda Wreckers in CHCH- quoted me $1800 for a j35 !!!  ii
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 01, 2020, 08:28:02 AM
Hey Ross, what you gunna feed your one with?
Triple strombergs?
Or a holley 350?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 08:29:17 AM
Great to see some action  b> b>

Painting got me grumpy yesterday so I started fiddling with this too.....

How many engines do you have Ross, is that a 35 or 30?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on April 01, 2020, 08:42:41 AM
I cannot remember the length- it's around 540mm I think- total width with tight exhaust manifold and alternator in stock position is 595mm give or take 15mm. Height from bottom of sump to top of trumpets on the carbs is 760mm

This may change a wee bit depending on your configuration- note my engine is a j30a- I don't know if the j35 is exactly the same.

Engines in CHCH were very expensive I got mine from Auckland- still cheaper with shipping. I paid 500 plus 150 for freight.

Strongs are the Honda Wreckers in CHCH- quoted me $1800 for a j35 !!!  ii

Auckland sounds like the go then!! A buddy has an m18 in a 3.4 scott so I might get him to measure that for me and I can compare notes. It is sounding more and more promising though. Would a 612 unit be suffice or would a 7" be better? (sorry a bit noob on boat stuff)

Now for this damn lockdown to be finished so I can start sourcing engines...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 01, 2020, 09:14:37 AM
Auckland sounds like the go then!! A buddy has an m18 in a 3.4 scott so I might get him to measure that for me and I can compare notes. It is sounding more and more promising though. Would a 612 unit be suffice or would a 7" be better? (sorry a bit noob on boat stuff)

Now for this damn lockdown to be finished so I can start sourcing engines...

This is a j35 in my 3.6m hull.
About 540mm wide at front
640mm wide at middle, depending in how tight you make exhausts.
660mm high.
490mm long.
It's on a 7.5" Hamilton 772 unit.

The j30, 32, 35, 37 are all same physical dimensions.

I think Harris marine was bringing in some j37 engines as they were never sold here.

The 35 was but not overly common

The j30 is very common and very cheap, a lot end up at scrap metal yards.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 01, 2020, 19:28:52 PM
Now your talking  O), O), O), Old school down draft carbs... OoOoO

The lost art and black magic of Weber Side draft carbs
The ubiquitous monster carburetor: Tame this, and the old school is your oyster.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25816/lost-art-the-weber-sidedraft-carburetor/
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 19:29:43 PM
Auckland sounds like the go then!! A buddy has an m18 in a 3.4 scott so I might get him to measure that for me and I can compare notes. It is sounding more and more promising though. Would a 612 unit be suffice or would a 7" be better? (sorry a bit noob on boat stuff)

Now for this damn lockdown to be finished so I can start sourcing engines...

612 should hold on to the torque I would have thought- I am staying with my modded colorado and southern jet bullet- not going to change anything from the 1800 turbo so I can get a direct comparison- might work might not- be fun to get some empirical data.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 19:32:57 PM
Now your talking  O), O), O), Old school down draft carbs... OoOoO

The lost art and black magic of Weber Side draft carbs
The ubiquitous monster carburetor: Tame this, and the old school is your oyster.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25816/lost-art-the-weber-sidedraft-carburetor/

 Glad to have you onboard Warwick, I realise its a step backwards in time but new school alloy engine and old school carbs- I can pretend I am Enzo Ferrari and wear white overalls with an oily rag hanging out of the pocket and a big shiny screwdriver to tune it with  O0
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 19:37:52 PM
That's a cool article- I love this quote, really sums it up for me:

"Weber tuning takes time, but when you get it right, the results are transcendent: easy starts, lightning response, good power, and no surging in traffic. Plus the reliability of a stone and diabolical intake noise. Freed of an air filter, most Webers sound like hell's Disposal. As with a lot of things on vintage cars, the looks and noise are half the draw."   *-)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 01, 2020, 19:59:18 PM
J30A Pick a part

https://www.pickapart.co.nz/eziparts/Display_Vehicle.asp?PriceListID=0&VehicleID=1101&Location=pickapartconz&LocationID=5&VehicleDesc=Honda%20RA8

Engine Assembly, 6cyl Fuel Injected   $ 220.00
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 01, 2020, 21:17:13 PM
Carbs are cool. Getting the right size for the jobs really important. Too big and they wont atomize the fuel correctly. The velocity of the air and internal Vacuum needs to be matched to the size of the engine. Mate putting carbs on a new all alloy engine is genius. I love rebuilding carbs.... Shall I do a post in the tech section on how I do it?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: steelo on April 01, 2020, 21:35:03 PM
Yes please.
Also, if too big, they won't fit into mums pots
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 01, 2020, 23:01:28 PM
Yes please.
Also, if too big, they won't fit into mums pots

Yep go for it- more info the better. Going to need all the help I can get when it comes to tuning/ setting these up.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 02, 2020, 00:04:26 AM
J30A Pick a part

https://www.pickapart.co.nz/eziparts/Display_Vehicle.asp?PriceListID=0&VehicleID=1101&Location=pickapartconz&LocationID=5&VehicleDesc=Honda%20RA8

Engine Assembly, 6cyl Fuel Injected   $ 220.00

Beware of pricing at pickapart - they often end up charging for each of the bits (- short-block; heads; alternator; waterpump; etc).  prices can add up quickly.  It's great being ableto find and pull off bits you want though.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: sje on April 02, 2020, 09:18:23 AM
Those carbs look awesome and I considered doing the same for mine. I have an old school Weber Carb guru at my disposal and he put me off by saying the jets to tune are expensive and  when 6 are needed $$$ isnt what I have.  Im not discounting the idea yet tho so be keen to see what happens here. In the meantime I'm looking at making a manifold to take 2 or 4 barrel. Cant decide as 4 barrel may be too big. Thanks for the inlet PDF too, I got mine cut off the gasket as a template the day before your drawing.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 11:26:01 AM
Yep jets are not that cheap- however if I can get close on what comes stock- there are guys on eBay that will sell you whatever jets you want in a kit so I can get 20 jets for about a hundred bucks- also I went with 40mm carbs which will have smaller jets, I can drill/ream out the next size up if I need to get the tune close then just buy the appropriate jet new. Based on my reading/ watching there is a lot of adjustment in these carbs and it will take a bit of fiddling (a lot actually) but the goal is to get it running using an AFR gauge on an engine stand- get the idle and low/no load sorted then get some jets and head to the dyno and do this properly. As always success and failure will be reported and analysed!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
In the meantime I'm looking at making a manifold to take 2 or 4 barrel. Cant decide as 4 barrel may be too big.

If in doubt go smaller- you can make a wee carb behave much better than a big one (it can be done both ways) but smaller carbs will benefit us jet boaters more as we don't see high rpm. It's all about throttle response and mid-range torque- you don't want a big flowing carb falling on its face all the time because it's not matched to the cylinder size in the engine- a J30a has a 500 cc cylinder volume, whereas a 350 chev has 712cc volume so if a 600 Holley (or even samller- someone feel free to correct me) is the best fit for a stock 350 then I think that would be as big as you would ever want to go and it would need to be jetted down to work properly- unfortunately smaller carbs are harder to find. Good luck
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 02, 2020, 12:30:23 PM
Try and find one of these old school tools.... and air flow vacuume tester
http://www.2040-parts.com/sun-electric-epa-75-atlas-aet-330-u912-gas-analyzer-service-man-pdf-book-cd-i2113216/

HOLLEY do a good carb selector tool
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970210741.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.35.17cc6699xCjrMW&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.128125.0&scm_id=1007.13338.128125.0&scm-url=1007.13338.128125.0&pvid=27ee41fa-bdbb-4b18-a261-d3a08219373c

Lots of Carbs around.... Below has Mechanical secondary and electric choke....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000227990547.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.7.387c4af8cQZes6&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.128125.0&scm_id=1007.13338.128125.0&scm-url=1007.13338.128125.0&pvid=3632b211-054e-4e45-b745-cbe061567399
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on April 02, 2020, 12:33:07 PM
The 600 Holley is the factory carb on all the older style Tornament Ski boats , whether 350 Chev or 351 Windsor. My old one would was 290hp and revved to 5600rpm as an example.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on April 02, 2020, 12:37:05 PM
Warwick, is the old style gas analyser any better than a wideband AFR sensor and gauge for mixture tuning?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on April 02, 2020, 13:16:05 PM
Yep jets are not that cheap- however if I can get close on what comes stock- there are guys on eBay that will sell you whatever jets you want in a kit so I can get 20 jets for about a hundred bucks- also I went with 40mm carbs which will have smaller jets, I can drill/ream out the next size up if I need to get the tune close then just buy the appropriate jet new. Based on my reading/ watching there is a lot of adjustment in these carbs and it will take a bit of fiddling (a lot actually) but the goal is to get it running using an AFR gauge on an engine stand- get the idle and low/no load sorted then get some jets and head to the dyno and do this properly. As always success and failure will be reported and analysed!
With the bike carbs i ended up thowing the AFR guage away and tuning for the hardest pull .. theres quite a differance between too rich / lean and mint and youll see it in rpm and feel it ...
Getting them nicely ballanced is a biggy
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 02, 2020, 13:55:55 PM
The motorcycle carb jets are about $1.20 each
I just buy a bunch different sizes at a time.
Once set up you don't have to change them.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 02, 2020, 18:32:23 PM
Jimmy I don't know as I've only used the old SUN 12Volt machines with the Hose up the exhaust pipe and go for a drive with the Analyzer on the seat to road test the carbs..... twin exhausts can cause issues,, as can a leaking inlet manifold dodgy PCV valve or holes/leaks in the exhaust system
I found they always worked great....replace the inlet filter often. usually just a plastic inline fuel filter....

With multiple carbs when Phasing the butterflies and accelerator linkages...PLEASE!!! START at the closed butterflies and work back to the throttle pedal.... Just do it this way it saves time and it works 

Just so everyone knows Holley do Flame arrestors If you need them....

https://www.holley.com/search/?q=flame%20arrestor

The Holley carb selector recommends a Two Barrel 500CFM carb for 184cui(3Ltr) engine @6000Rpm redline

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/marine_carburetors/parts/0-80402-1       
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 18:56:15 PM
Warwick, where are you located?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 18:59:26 PM
Anyone know how close you can put an afr sensor to the block- I was thinking of welding in a bung for each runner- these are super short to help with tuning- thoughts?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 02, 2020, 19:32:58 PM
Anyone know how close you can put an afr sensor to the block- I was thinking of welding in a bung for each runner- these are super short to help with tuning- thoughts?

Yes
High end tuners put a wideband sensor on each cylinder. 
Most modern ECUs have trim on each injector.
But it's more pronounced with carburetted engines, more single carb setups.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 19:36:33 PM
ok can they be too close to the block ie get damaged? or should I make up a simple tuning manifold with longer runners- was hoping to use the cast stock one but it's tight as.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 02, 2020, 20:04:03 PM
More Old school tuning tricks and tools
The Color Tune spark plug

http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4074
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 02, 2020, 20:40:38 PM
ok can they be too close to the block ie get damaged? or should I make up a simple tuning manifold with longer runners- was hoping to use the cast stock one but it's tight as.

They can apparently get too hot but I have never experienced it.
I would say you will be fine close to head.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 02, 2020, 20:45:05 PM
More Old school tuning tricks and tools
The Color Tune spark plug

http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4074

That's pretty cool.  I'm guessing there is a whole range of colours (not just orange & blue) that would correspond with various λ values, so getting the 'shade' right would be really important?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 02, 2020, 22:55:53 PM
In an effort to keep the interest going more slow and somewhat ugly progress- the manifold will get split down the middle to allow easy install but that's after I finish welding the runners to the head flanges. Then I need to flatten the warps, port match the runners both at the carb and head ends and then maybe paint the outside in crinkle coat Honda red for added horsepower... goes faster as you well know.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 02, 2020, 23:26:01 PM
You're right Paul and to be fair. I hope that the new gas were sold burns the same colour?
However as you've all become used too! We have some more magic tricks in our Old school tool bag....."THE PLUG CUT".... Have a read....

https://motorizedbicyclebuilder.com/how-to-read-your-spark-plug/

This is how our Grandads at the Merlin V12 factory got it Angry, on song and Chomping at the Focke-Wulf's trim tabs.....

So with some effort to read and learn about Fuel Atomization, Spark plug design, Ignition,engine air fuel ratio Mixture, It's possible to tune you engine and learn some cool stuff to talk about at the Pub next Friday....Oh crap!!! Were in Lock down....
Well you can read this spark plug guff if your interested
  http://www.ngksparkplugs.co.za/technical/technical-spark-plugs/
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 04, 2020, 08:55:01 AM
In an effort to keep the interest going more slow and somewhat ugly progress- the manifold will get split down the middle to allow easy install but that's after I finish welding the runners to the head flanges. Then I need to flatten the warps, port match the runners both at the carb and head ends and then maybe paint the outside in crinkle coat Honda red for added horsepower... goes faster as you well know.

Wouldn't it be better to leave top plate in one piece?
That needs to be dead flat between the 2x sides for the carbs to seal to.
Have seen many people pulling hair out trying to tune engines with vacuum leak.... 2c 2c
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 09:33:20 AM
hey kakapo...I agree with Jeff re the splitting of the manifold. Id mill that sucker flat and leave it whole. I used to be a mechanic many moons ago and have dealt with all sorts of carbs and tuning...a vac leak will make you pull your hair out..and make sure your carbies all have good butterfly shafts with o rings if they have them in good nick....you can do anything you like at the non venturi end and fix it easily but your carby setup wont be worth a pinch of do do's if your leakin.  C""
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 10:24:23 AM
It was the original plan for the reasons you both mention, however, it means I cannot use studs- well I can but they have to be removed to get the manifold to sit in place and there is bugger all room in the center- not impossible of course just tight. The second issue is the original manifold is split (for the same reasons I assume) so I was following Mr. Honda's lead. Even with just the locating dowels, its was a right prick getting it out once I had tacked the flanges to the runners. Thoughts? especially on bolts in a head vs studs?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on April 04, 2020, 10:53:49 AM
Bolts will be fine  b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 10:58:58 AM
Chances are even with studs will the second one foul on the first one when fitting? Or maybe split it...make a top plate with seal grooves milled in to seal between the plate and the manifolds....then the carbies with gaskets on top. If you could mill it in place with gaskets on etc as it bolts to the heads then split it it would likely go back into the same place......another idea is to mill an o ring groove into the base of the carbies if there is room......either way you attack it you will need to do a vac test to check they all seal. Good luck!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 04, 2020, 11:01:48 AM
If it was mine I would ditch the dowels. Oversize or slot holes where flanges bolt to heads.
Leave in one piece
Machine 2x head flanges perfect angle and flat (the hard bit)
Mill top plate flat, doesn't matter if its on the piss by 1 or 2 deg, so long as its flat.
It's a big job to get perfect
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
If it was mine I would ditch the dowels. Oversize or slot holes where flanges bolt to heads.
Leave in one piece
Machine 2x head flanges perfect angle and flat (the hard bit)
Mill top plate flat, doesn't matter if its on the piss by 1 or 2 deg, so long as its flat.
It's a big job to get perfect

WHAT HE SAID!!! *-)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 12:28:13 PM

It's a big job to get perfect

Read- almost bloody impossible  pig will do my best- bolts it is then and some very tricky welding on the inside of the head flanges. I can see some nice fat squishy gaskets being made with hi temp rtv.... cou
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on April 04, 2020, 13:39:05 PM
Agree. Slot the holes on the head side so you can use the factory studs, although bolts will be sweet.
The trouble with only machinining the top where the carbs bolt to is that potentially it will twist or distort when you tighten it at the heads.
I reckon its worth trying to take a minimal lick off the head faces and then skimming the carb face.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 04, 2020, 13:46:16 PM
The trouble with using fat gaskets to take up uneven surfaces is they squash into the ports when tightened so your 45mm runner has a big ugly step reducing diameter.
Big fat cork gaskets...  that would be a step back in time.....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 14:33:37 PM
The trouble with using fat gaskets to take up uneven surfaces is they squash into the ports when tightened so your 45mm runner has a big ugly step reducing diameter.
Big fat cork gaskets...  that would be a step back in time.....

Although period-correct given the weber *-)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 14:59:09 PM
any chance of slotting the manifold where it contacts the heads? then run o rings like the ls1 does....definate seal....need a mill though...having said that cool gaskets would do it.....but...yuk.... l-l
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 16:25:15 PM
we'll have none of your ls nonsense here thank you very much- this is a high tech bodge job-  00.t (actually what I meant to say was - I don't have a mill handy)  >>@
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 04, 2020, 16:26:04 PM
As long as the gasket bolt holes are accurate and tight on the bolts (- i.e gasket can't move relative to head), wouldn't just slotting the manifold slightly be enough?  Could even put a bit of vaseline(?) on top side of gasket, so manifold can slide along gasket face to seat properly. 

For a cheap boroscope get one of these and you can put it down any of the runners etc to check alignment/port-matching:
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/as-seen-on-tv-atomic-lizard-cam/R2589715.html (https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/as-seen-on-tv-atomic-lizard-cam/R2589715.html)
They're a pretty good picture considering the price, but they do kill 4 AA's in under an hour of use...

If you have a piece of float-glass (- virtually all glass is), and a several good size pieces of 200/400/800 grit wet'n'dry paper, you can get an incredibly flat/true surface with no heavy machinery.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 17:11:47 PM


If you have a piece of float-glass (- virtually all glass is), and a several good size pieces of 200/400/800 grit wet'n'dry paper, you can get an incredibly flat/true surface with no heavy machinery.

I assume you mean flat glass- that's an excellent idea- when the shops open up I will pursue that option- thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 04, 2020, 18:59:28 PM
Float glass, is glass that's formed by floating it on a layer of molten tin.  As the tin is a liquid (that gravity makes flat), the glass is created perfectly flat.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 19:42:24 PM
we'll have none of your ls nonsense here thank you very much- this is a high tech bodge job-  00.t (actually what I meant to say was - I don't have a mill handy)  >>@

haha lol...fair enough.....but mate you NEED another 2 cylinders!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 20:03:30 PM
haha lol...fair enough.....but mate you NEED another 2 cylinders!

Quite possibly, I love v8's (Ford guy btw- hence my allergic LS reaction   ::) ) but what I don't need is the accompanying 100kg This v6 (so far) is lighter than my turbo 4 and the boats only 3.4m
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 04, 2020, 20:12:56 PM
Quite possibly, I love v8's (Ford guy btw- hence my allergic LS reaction   ::) ) but what I don't need is the accompanying 100kg This v6 (so far) is lighter than my turbo 4 and the boats only 3.4m

fair enough mate...hey I have a ford ranger...so im not brand specific....but yeah I can see lightweight is the way to go...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 04, 2020, 21:04:37 PM
me neither tbh- have a bunch of gm cars in the fleet- I go with what works generally my daily hack is Kia and I love it. Although I do get a bit tribal during Bathurst.  cou life is so antiseptic these days no one gets to upset anymore, it's bloody boring!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 04, 2020, 21:43:20 PM
I do get a bit tribal during Bathurst.

The big race is going to look a bit different next year!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on April 04, 2020, 21:48:02 PM
Quite possibly, I love v8's (Ford guy btw- hence my allergic LS reaction   ::) ) but what I don't need is the accompanying 100kg This v6 (so far) is lighter than my turbo 4 and the boats only 3.4m
jeffs diesel is lighter than your turbo 4  cou
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 05, 2020, 13:58:04 PM
jeffs diesel is lighter than your turbo 4  cou

oooh thats wounding...(probably true though)  fl. )1
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 05, 2020, 14:49:07 PM
Float glass, is glass that's formed by floating it on a layer of molten tin.  As the tin is a liquid (that gravity makes flat), the glass is created perfectly flat.

 The things you learn on this site! Very cool.  b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 08, 2020, 17:05:30 PM
Got access to a lathe... and no I didn't lick it and no its not infected with Covid. Machined up an adaptor collar to hold the dizzy and welded it to the stock dizzy mounting plate- I haven't shortened the shaft as I want to be able to replace parts without mods in the future should they break or wear.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 08, 2020, 19:05:35 PM
Are you going to use a Bosch Transformer coil? They pack a good punch.....The link below has some good info for Ignition coils and systems

http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Bosch_HEI

CONTENTS

1 Bosch HEI:

    1.1 Distributor Interchangeability (Six Cylinder):
    1.2 Distributor Interchangeability (V8):
    1.3 Overview:

2 Operation:

    2.1 Safety:
    2.2 Reliability:

3 Bosch HEI Distributor Lubrication:
4 The Ignition Coil:

    4.1 Oil Filled Coil:
    4.2 Plastic Coil:
    4.3 Plastic Coil Info:

5 Static Checks:

    5.1 Testing The Vacuum Advance Module:
    5.2 Testing the Balance Weights:
    5.3 Testing The Magnetic Pickup:
    5.4 Testing The Ignition Module :
    5.5 Checking the Reluctor Clearance:

6 Identifying Centrifugal Advance:
7 Dynamic Checks:

    7.1 Centrifugal Advance:
    7.2 Vacuum Advance:

8 Servicing the Bosch HEI System:

    8.1 Removing the Distributor from the Engine:
    8.2 Rubber Block:
    8.3 Removing the Vacuum Advance Module:
    8.4 Removing the Ignition Module:
    8.5 Removing the Distributor Drive Gear:
    8.6 Securing the Distributor Body:
    8.7 Removing the Distributor Shaft:
    8.8 Fitting a New Shaft:
    8.9 Replacing and Positioning the Magnetic Pickup:
    8.10 Replacing the Reluctor:
    8.11 Replacing the Ignition Module:
        8.11.1 Silicon Grease:
        8.11.2 Where to Get Silicon Grease:
    8.12 Cover Screws:
    8.13 Screws:
    8.14 Wiring:
    8.15 The Vacuum Advance Module:
        8.15.1 Removal:
        8.15.2 Replacing:

9 Replacing the Distributor in the Engine:

    9.1 Firing Order:

10 Decoding Bosch HEI Numbers:
11 Spark Plugs:

    11.1 Spark Plug Models:
        11.1.1 149, 179, 161, 186 gasket seat 3/4" reach:
        11.1.2 HEI Plugs For Holden Engines:
    11.2 Spark Plug Gaps:

12 Retiming the Engine From Scratch:
13 Troubleshooting:

    13.1 The Distributor Does not Trigger the Coil (no spark):
    13.2 Ignition Cuts Out When the Engine is Hot:
    13.3 Rough Idle:
    13.4 Hard Starting:
    13.5 The Coil Sparks but Won't Start a Properly Timed Engine:
    13.6 The Engine kicks back during cranking:
    13.7 Poor acceleration:
    13.8 Erratic Ignition Timing:

14 Tools Required:
15 Step By Step HEI Upgrade:

    15.1 Magnetic Pickup Test:

16 Parts:

    16.1 Distributor Cap:
    16.2 Ignition Module:
    16.3 Wiring Diagrams:
    16.4 Coil:
    16.5 Parts Interchangeability:
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Swift12 on April 08, 2020, 19:05:43 PM
good job!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 20, 2020, 20:05:32 PM
Question time: I am trying to get my head around vacuum advance and how it applies to jetboats: I know why we have it in a car- its to assist with off-idle acceleration, driveability, and fuel economy at cruise.

In a boat, however, are we ever in a vacuum apart from at idle? The reason I ask is I am looking at modding a distributor for another wee turbo project I am playing around wit and want to control max advance to about 22-25 deg.

Any info would be great as its not an area I am familiar with.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on April 20, 2020, 20:09:36 PM
You are correct,vacuum advance is not really applicable in a jet boat. Bin it and limit the throw in the mechanical advance
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on April 20, 2020, 21:09:06 PM
Agree with Lazybones. You won't find any genuine marine distributors with vacuum advance. A marine engine has very low vacuum as its running with load on all the time, except out of gear.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 26, 2020, 15:32:57 PM
Parts still rolling in and I am fed up with the turbo so out with the old and in with the Old School.

Jeff- What version/ car donor was the subaru starter motor you used on your J35?- The j30a honda one I purchased turned out to be a dud so looking for an alternative?

Hey kakapo, this is the factory honda starter but a subaru one will fit similar, just different bracket/offset.
Take note, this is the only spot the starter can go, there is clearance in the block for the throw out cog.
No other places on the block have clearance.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 26, 2020, 18:13:02 PM
Hey Jeff, your timing could not have been more perfect I am fighting with this right now- really like the bracket you made up- this is the location I am working with as well- the pinion snout is a pain in the butt!

Could you post some measurements for your offset- I am struggling to get my alignment correct- I will have a crack at copying your design.
 BTW your welding is looking amazing  b> b> b>

I ended up buying a new honda starter- seemed simpler in the end...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 26, 2020, 19:43:57 PM
My starter mount face is 67mm from block face. But dont take that for gospel, I have a k20 flywheel, not sure what differences there are?
One bolt goes straight into block so it's pretty easy.
Make sure you dont have the starter upside down, bolts are offset.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 26, 2020, 19:50:04 PM
Thanks mate- looks great will have a go and redo my bracket. Really missing Blacks Fasteners atm desperate for some metric fine bolts!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 27, 2020, 18:19:02 PM
https://youtu.be/xYRnPoAms4M

Here is j30 running on floor. Pretty loud with no exhaust whatsoever..
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on April 27, 2020, 18:47:47 PM
https://youtu.be/xYRnPoAms4M

Here is j30 running on floor. Pretty loud with no exhaust whatsoever..
Nice quick , and simple little project there jeff ... chuck some pipes on and throw it in a boat next week  B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 28, 2020, 08:27:35 AM
Firing order is a bit weird.
And Honda number their cylinders weird too. But this is accurate.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Paul on April 28, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
Firing order is a bit weird.
And Honda number their cylinders weird too.

Firing order is just like the Chev V6's, where it just fires down the crankshaft in sequence (- Chev's start at flywheel end though - 654321).

The cylinder numbering on this Honda is the same as Ford dual-bank engines, where they number in sequence all down one bank, then down the other bank.

If you're using wasted spark with this, then match those cylinders furthest-apart in ignition sequence, e.g : 1&5 4&3 2&6.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on April 28, 2020, 12:51:30 PM
https://youtu.be/xYRnPoAms4M

Here is j30 running on floor. Pretty loud with no exhaust whatsoever..

Are you using the stock ecu or aftermarket?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on April 28, 2020, 14:30:20 PM
Are you using the stock ecu or aftermarket?

Set up on older Haltech e8 ecu. I do away with at least half the factory wiring. Factory crank and cam sensors with modified factory trigger wheels.
The older j30/35s can be set up and run on modified factory car ecu. Not sure about these later ones? Most late model stuff has  security interlock junk.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 09:56:31 AM
Made some progress: Alternator fitted now I can get bolts from Blacks- used the factory tensioner and its super simple routing.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 10:00:37 AM
Made up some cork gaskets now that tradme is sending bits and bobs again. Mounted the inlet manifold- that was a mission and took its toll in skinned knuckles- next time I make one I will make the runners 25mm taller just to get better access to the bolts in the head.

Installed the carbs- they line up pretty good so it's on to linkages and fuel, and mounting the starter.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 10:03:01 AM
Looking like something that might actually run now. I also picked up some copper core 7mm spark lead and am going to remake the leads to fit the longer distributor.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Allen M on May 03, 2020, 10:14:40 AM
 If looks could kill!!! b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: mohawk on May 03, 2020, 10:39:38 AM
how far above the boat sides will the engine cover end up ?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on May 03, 2020, 10:45:15 AM
With trumpets like that why would you have a engine cover.

Well done Kakapo  b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 11:14:25 AM
how far above the boat sides will the engine cover end up ?

Ok, this is a correction because that was my initial measurements and didn't seem correct. Ran out to the jetboat with a tape to check again!

My turbo four is 680mm from the bottom of the hull to clearing the coils.
The v6 is 740mm to the top of the trumpets based on the same point of measure. So we will need to put some sort of scoop to accommodate the trumpets.

Side to side I am only 90 wider so will fit inside the existing engine cover- although the engine will have to go in first unless I make some modifications.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 11:15:20 AM

My current cover is 100mm above the sides.

It's really deceptive how compact these engines are.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 12:08:38 PM
I quite like the idea of cutting 6 holes in the cover to match the trumpets but am worried about a big wave swamping the engine so might have to stick with those chrome angled side vents.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 12:13:27 PM
If looks could kill!!! b>

Hopefully, there is a bit of go with the show! It does look pretty cool and I think the induction noise will be awesome- pity its not a v8 ... still trying to work out how to get a snappy exhaust note- should I go twin pipes or a single exhaust?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on May 03, 2020, 13:39:35 PM
Looks pretty cool.
I'm not sure what you're doing with carb linkages? Probably can get all that stuff off shelf for IDFs?

I made these carb linkages up using Remote control car servo motor parts.
Just another idea.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on May 03, 2020, 14:10:59 PM
Twin stacks up thru the engine cover mixing induction and exhaust notes together it'll sound like a Harmonic Symphony orchestra and It'll be too fast for any waves to drown it!!!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 14:32:18 PM
I like those linkages Warwick. Nice to have all the adjustment as well. Will look into that idea and see what's available currently.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: steelo on May 03, 2020, 14:33:28 PM
That's very clever and extremely neat Jeff
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 03, 2020, 15:08:04 PM
Man I can't read today not measure it seems. So to correct my above posts. Jeff I like those linkages👍👍😎
And Warwick hopefully it is fast😎
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on May 03, 2020, 18:34:22 PM
Hopefully, there is a bit of go with the show! It does look pretty cool and I think the induction noise will be awesome- pity its not a v8 ... still trying to work out how to get a snappy exhaust note- should I go twin pipes or a single exhaust?

It will never sound like a v8 unfortunately. This is how I did mine, common balance pipe helps a lot and I think the offset outlet helps slightly to mix up exhaust pulses.
My other v6 is similar and sounds pretty quiet/good.
The v6 Honda will always sound better than a VQ35 or v6 crappodore....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: spinner on May 03, 2020, 20:17:19 PM
that looks super tidy Jeff. I like how the silicone coupler is down in the water cooled part. That would help to give the balance pipe a bit of room to move while keeping them cool. What size and thickness is that stainless tube?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on May 04, 2020, 07:28:57 AM
that looks super tidy Jeff. I like how the silicone coupler is down in the water cooled part. That would help to give the balance pipe a bit of room to move while keeping them cool. What size and thickness is that stainless tube?
51mm inner headers
63mm outer headers
76mm balance pipe/outlet.
All 1.5/1.6mm wall.
Done a few setups like this and they work well.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on May 24, 2020, 21:52:52 PM
Picked up a j35a8 from pick-a-part in Christchurch yesterday for $220 bones  *-)

Any advice or tips on the marinising side of things for them let me know...

I cannot remember the length- it's around 540mm I think- total width with tight exhaust manifold and alternator in stock position is 595mm give or take 15mm. Height from bottom of sump to top of trumpets on the carbs is 760mm

This may change a wee bit depending on your configuration- note my engine is a j30a- I don't know if the j35 is exactly the same.

Engines in CHCH were very expensive I got mine from Auckland- still cheaper with shipping. I paid 500 plus 150 for freight.

Strongs are the Honda Wreckers in CHCH- quoted me $1800 for a j35 !!!  ii
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on May 25, 2020, 18:08:06 PM
Picked up a j35a8 from pick-a-part in Christchurch yesterday for $220 bones  *-)

Any advice or tips on the marinising side of things for them let me know...

 That's a great deal! Are you going carby or staying with fuel injection??
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Vlad on June 04, 2020, 05:04:15 AM
Cool!  b>
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 08, 2020, 16:59:08 PM
Hi Guys,

Going to build an aluminium HE similar to Jeff's last build- does anyone know how to calculate size and volume for a given hp range say 200-250hp.
I want to do the internal tubes (actually the whole thing) in ali I understand that the thermal conductivity of aluminium is about 60% of that of copper so logically an alloy HE should be at least 40% bigger for the same effect. Does anyone have the measurements of a savage HE in terms of its overall size and the number of tubes running through it, their size  (I assume the guts are copper)? There's no point in going to large but would love to be able to run coolant in the engine this time.

Cheers any help is much appreciated.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 28, 2020, 20:25:55 PM
Time for an update!

My manifolds have made it to Auckland... I get the feeling there has been a lot of stuff sitting in warehouses doing nothing for some months, otherwise, the boats are awfully slow these days its bee nearly 3 months since they were shipped from Vancouver.  ii anyways, stuff is starting to turn up. In the meantime, I have stripped the boat to a bare hull, fixed the leak through the unit that has plagued me from new- turns out there was not enough thread on the main shaft so the carbon seal wasn't snugging up against the bearing face letting water through- many thanks to Jet Boat Base in CHCH for actually troubleshooting this correctly and getting the job done.

I have made up new engine mounts, sorted the throttle linkages, rewelded and flattened the warped intake manifold, and reinstalled the carbs. So far so good.

The rpm activated switch turned up this week also- looking forward to wiring that up to the VTEC and getting the advantages of those additional valves!
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 28, 2020, 20:27:07 PM
More pics
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 28, 2020, 20:36:42 PM
and some more...
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on June 28, 2020, 20:59:30 PM
Looking good.
Is that RHS engine mount finished? Or still a gusset to go on?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 28, 2020, 22:36:56 PM
Do you mean the top pic above this post (3 up) yes it's finished- its got a welded brace on the bottom 12mm thick do you think it needs more?- the other 3 mounts are all-welded pipe like the left-hand side- height was the issue for the flat-mount.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: wad26 on June 29, 2020, 07:16:55 AM
I know Hondas are light.. but in my opinion that will fail.

I tried to cut corners with light weight engine mounts on my last boat and the let me down after some decent river boating.

The hard thing to imagine sitting in the workshop is the forces at play when flying over pressure waves or hitting rocks in a river.

I think they should always have a gusset. Here is one i made for the mighty Daewoo.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jimmy Jet on June 29, 2020, 07:31:05 AM
100% agree the mount needs some material on its edge as a gusset. You could give the current version a good hit with a hammer and bend it. Overkill a good thing in this area no matter what type of vessel.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ President on June 29, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Great to see some progress  b>

That engine mount could be beefed up by plating each side to make it into a "I".
That looks to be the same window switch as I've used, easy as.

PS I wouldn't let anyone with the last name of that snowy headed chap anywhere near anything mechanical  ;)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on June 30, 2020, 08:14:47 AM
Do you mean the top pic above this post (3 up) yes it's finished- its got a welded brace on the bottom 12mm thick do you think it needs more?- the other 3 mounts are all-welded pipe like the left-hand side- height was the issue for the flat-mount.

Yeah it just looks really weak (to me)
Are you just running the one mount on that side? I see a big plate beside it, that's what I used on mine.
When you get those IDFs dialed in the pure torque of the v6 will flex that mount  fl.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on June 30, 2020, 08:26:05 AM
Hi Jeff,

The other mounts are not in there yet- it will have four- two on each side- I will turn that mount into an I beam - it is braced underneath but better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 01, 2020, 21:37:36 PM

[/quote]
PS I wouldn't let anyone with the last name of that snowy headed chap anywhere near anything mechanical  ;)
[/quote]

... he's a good bugger all the same Ross, can't condemn a guy for his family tree  :o ;)

Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 01, 2020, 21:39:41 PM
Finally, they turned up- now I need to knock out the adaptor plates and the time of excuses is over! There's a bit of fiddling to get everything lined up but man are they compact and sleek against the block.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: wad26 on July 02, 2020, 07:31:48 AM
They look good, what are they off?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 02, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
Honda 200 4 stroke outboard- they have a different bolt pattern as the heads are not identical car/ marine- check back earlier in this thread and there are some pics and an explanation.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 10, 2020, 20:32:11 PM
Had a nice day on the end of a die grinder- tbh not my favorite activity, however- adaptor plates are made and I can carry on with the rest of the exhaust now.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on July 18, 2020, 22:06:49 PM
Jeff,

On the stainless exhaust pipe you built a few pages back, how did you get the 51mm to match the outlet oval? On my calcs the circumference of that oval should be 61mm?
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on July 19, 2020, 10:55:45 AM
Jeff,

On the stainless exhaust pipe you built a few pages back, how did you get the 51mm to match the outlet oval? On my calcs the circumference of that oval should be 61mm?

Have to cut 2" elbow back into bend radius a bit and also weld an additional small segment to end of elbow, to flange.
Has to be cut back in just the right place so a cut back 2.5" elbow covers it.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on July 19, 2020, 11:18:12 AM
Ahh, I think I get what you mean.
I was trying to CAD it using standard size OD pipe, and them 3d print a custom jig I could use in a press to press the ovals to water jacket it.

Back to the drawing board ..

Have to cut 2" elbow back into bend radius a bit and also weld an additional small segment to end of elbow, to flange.
Has to be cut back in just the right place so a cut back 2.5" elbow covers it.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 19, 2020, 13:02:07 PM
Slowly but surely working away on this build. I have to modify my left bank (looking fomr the rear) water port- it interferes badly with the alternator- its no big deal as there is a haep of room to weld on an AN fitting underneath the manifold, will be neater and more compact as a result. I love these manifolds, now just need to get some factory gaskets for the outboard heads and she is ready to mount the exhaust system permanently.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 19, 2020, 13:03:34 PM
More pics.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: georgemcf on July 19, 2020, 17:02:02 PM
You couldn't pm me a close up photo of it could you? Just so I can see how you cut it?

Have to cut 2" elbow back into bend radius a bit and also weld an additional small segment to end of elbow, to flange.
Has to be cut back in just the right place so a cut back 2.5" elbow covers it.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on July 19, 2020, 20:57:35 PM
You couldn't pm me a close up photo of it could you? Just so I can see how you cut it?

Cant PM pics.
You can see here the extra bit welded to inner to match oval.
The outer just fits cut and shaped properly.
It's a bit fiddly and I doubt 3d printing anything will help here....
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Jeff B on July 19, 2020, 21:01:24 PM
Those manifolds are nice and compact and hug engine nicely. Are you going to put hi risers? Looks like they seal with spigot/O rings?
I have fitted jacketed manifolds without exhaust gaskets before, just gasket poo. Works fine as doesn't get too hot.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on July 20, 2020, 22:32:11 PM
Hi Jeff, going to go with hi risers- want to make them out of jacketed alloy so waiting for some cast elbows to turn up from Aliexpress- was initially going to go with a simple muffler but decided to do it properly. I will carry on with the fueling and cooling in the meantime. The cast aelbows will mean I can turn a tighter radius and will be much thicker (ie last better I reckon.)
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on August 13, 2020, 22:35:11 PM
The cast alloy elbows turned up. Way cheaper than alloy mandrel bends and thicker overall- definitely more brittle  as cast material seems to be- will be interesting to see if vibration etc causes cracking down the track.

I have made a bit of progress on the exhaust system- its 80% done so hopefully by yhr weekend I can get that finished and installed permanently.

Really hoping there are some new projects coming down the pike folks- the old boards are very quiet.

Anyways some pics for the masses.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on August 13, 2020, 22:37:48 PM
I had to lean the starboard riser outwards slightly to give better clearance to the dizzy.
Title: Re: J30a V6 Bike Carby Engine Build
Post by: Kakapo76 on August 13, 2020, 22:39:40 PM
 and mounted on the boat... more to mfollow shortly.