nzjetboating Web Board. Forums => Heritage & Classic Projects => Topic started by: JimJet on April 28, 2020, 21:03:49 PM

Title: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on April 28, 2020, 21:03:49 PM
After 3 years of research I thought I should share my current project.
"Saucy Jane" was perhaps Jet Boating's most significant jet boat. She was the first boat to achieve what we now take for granted as normal river boating. First owned by our legendary CWF in 1953/54. She was then sold (or given) to Alf Dick and later to George Davison.
From 6 photographs we have been able to re create the scale of "Saucy Jane". I first drafted the design and then had Naval Architect Dan Leech put my drawings onto a DFX file to create a cut file for the plywood.
The origional "Saucy Jane" was a plywood hull with an E93A Ford side valve engine of a mighty 30.1 horsepower. She had a hand fabricated steel jet unit which luckily was kept and now resides at Hamilton Marine. We have been able to get acurate measurements off that jet unit and now have full engineering drawings by Daren Gamble, to replicate another "Quinnett" unit.
My project will take around a year to complete so I will be posting updates throughout the project.
I would love to hear more info about the origional "Saucy Jane" so would love to hear from anyone with that info.
More later.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on April 29, 2020, 21:54:06 PM
Saucy Jane underway. Because we didnt have plans, we only had photo's, the best plan of attack was to build a female jig from our DFX file so we could build the hull from outside in. Most plywood boats are built with a frame from plans, and then skinned with the ply. I have done it the other way. I set up the jig and the first thing that went in was the ply. The big advantage with a "stich and glue" is that once I put the eyeometer over it I could change things before it was past the point of no return. As it was I discovered that the sides were too high so I trimmed off almost 100mm off the height. It then passed the eyeometer test and I carried on with the build. Next step is to lay two layers of fibreglass matting before putting in the frames last.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Nigel on April 29, 2020, 23:11:10 PM
Great project... look forward to HEAPS of photos
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on April 30, 2020, 08:41:28 AM
Would your cut files work for a Ginger Chutney alloy copy of your Ply and Glass Saucy Jane???
I've always thought that a classic in alloy would be a great mix of old and new.....   
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on April 30, 2020, 08:52:29 AM
Yes the DFX files would work on alloy or steel but to keep my project authentic it had to be ply.
Photo attached of Quinnett jet unit rendering. We now know that this design was not very efficient but it did get the whole game started. Very inovative for its day. I was talking to an old chap who told me the origional cogs were made by David Brown Gear Cutting in England, and CWF was most upset when he got the bill for them. The helical cut gears are 1.8 to 1. Don't quite know why they would make it that ratio and not nearer 1 to 1.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on April 30, 2020, 09:35:50 AM
Origional Quinnett unit. Hamilton Jet luckily kept this unit that got it all started. It was loosely styled from the Popular Mechanics article of the Hanley Hydro jet which delivered the jet stream under the water. CWF tried that but developed that idea into this one that discharged the jet stream above the water. Great Can DO inovative attitude in those early days. Cogs were 16:29 teeth, which gave a 1.813 to 1 ratio.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Clint640 on May 01, 2020, 21:59:35 PM
Great stuff! A fascinating project & an engineering history lesson in one, keep it coming please.

Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Jeff B on May 02, 2020, 05:28:49 AM
Great information thanks!
I had heard that the quinnat unit gears were stolen/borrowed from a hay baler gearbox? Possibly just a rumour.
Are you using the same side valve engine?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on May 02, 2020, 09:57:02 AM
Great Project for sure. Just out of interest and as a comparison to all the new boats.  What are the hull dimensions.... length, width, height and Deg delta. Thanks
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 02, 2020, 16:40:29 PM
Saucy Jane is 13 feet long and 5 foot one inch beam (or 4.0 x 1560) and has a 5 degree dead rise. There are no plans so have done the best guess from 6 photo?s and letters from George Davison who was the third person to own it. It will have the same E93A Ford Popular engine that George told me that it originally had. Side valve flat head 1172cc. We are making a few changes to make it more durable like fitting shell bearings from white metal big end bearings. We are fitting a Ford 8 head which will take the compression ratio from 6:1 to around 7.5:1. We are putting in a high volume oil pump and very slightly modifying the oil galleries. I?m also making a closed loop cooling system. I havn?t got my head around the cooling but I would like to have a priority cooling system but make it look like 1954.
Some time ago I found a marinised and slightly modified E93A engine that I thought might have been out of the original Saucy Jane. (motor was seized solid) Turns out it came out of a boat called little Miss Tekapo which was launched in the mid 50?s. That boat was owned by Dick and Allan Guard from Fairlie and used at Tekapo at the Tekapo Water Ski Club. CWF frequently was at the ski club and was a very good friend of Allan Guard. Allan told me the story of where the cogs for the jet unit gearbox were made and many other stories from Tekapo and early jet boats. One of the stories I discovered turns out that after my Uncle Rae Moss drowned in the Godley river in the 50?s his body was bought back in a dingy towed behind CWF?s jet boat. Probably one of the Whio?s.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Warwick Marflitt on May 02, 2020, 16:54:48 PM
History is always interesting. Sorry to hear about your uncles misfortune....
I hope that you've found some Rowlocks and ore's for it?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 02, 2020, 19:58:54 PM
No oars yet but plenty of time.
There's a great little video on Youtube of Saucy Jane. Just search Youtube for "William Hamilton and the Jet Boat". Shows a short colour clip of Saucy Jane in action. Shows some other boats as well. Possibly some of the "Whio" series of 1 or 2. The other boat on the Irishmans Creek dam is Alf Dicks boat that is now owned by the Canterbury Museum. Its not on public display.
Couple of photo's attached. One of the E93A engine we found in a barn out of "Little Miss Tekapo". Classic headers exhaust and it has a Ford Pilot twin choke carby. I'll donate that engine to the Fairlie Museum to go back with the boat it came out of. That engine will never run again.
Also anothe photo of Saucy Jane from the stern.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: swifty on May 02, 2020, 21:30:47 PM
Amazing project.So involve recreating everything!   So little miss tekapo is in fairly museum ?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 02, 2020, 21:55:40 PM
Yes Swifty recreate everything. Especially difficult to rebuild the unit.
So much research but totally worth it.
There is no evidence that Saucy Jane was on a hanging trailer but I have tracked down an original hanging trailer that I will use to make the whole project more authentic.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 03, 2020, 20:03:48 PM
Rendering of our DFX file.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 03, 2020, 20:05:49 PM
One more
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 05, 2020, 22:04:09 PM
Bit of a set back with building the mighty E93A engine. Conrods from the UK were so far out in their weights we can't use them. Have to send them back to the UK and get a balanced set.
Hard to imagine these little rods flying round at 3 to 4 thousand revs. They used to run the racing engines up to 7000!!! and 70hp.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 10, 2020, 19:46:00 PM
Latest progress. Keelson in, stem in and main engine bearers in. I put two layers of 300gm fibreglass cloth on before the timber frame. Progress slow and learning as I go, but very happy with progress so far. Next will be secondary longitudinal bearers, gunwhale support, chine support and then the lateral framing.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 11, 2020, 19:11:45 PM
Perhaps the most well known photo of Saucy Jane
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: swifty on May 11, 2020, 19:58:22 PM
* Saucy Jane * on what river does anyone know ?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: johnmead on May 11, 2020, 20:05:12 PM
Part of the Waitaki that is buried under a lake?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 11, 2020, 20:38:54 PM
Pretty sure it?s the Ohau river that is now under Lake Ruataniwha. I met a guy at the JBNZ Heritage Trust Display at last years Canterbury Show who knew exactly where it was as his family farmed the land in the photo
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: swifty on May 12, 2020, 00:42:00 AM
Cool thanks for the info
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on May 18, 2020, 17:46:05 PM
A little bit more progress in the past couple of weeks. Stringer support and dashboard in.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on June 22, 2020, 17:43:39 PM
Progress has slowed now that lockdown is over. Nearly ready to turn her over and fibreglass the outer skin.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on July 01, 2020, 18:44:52 PM
Have now got a hanging trailer for my project. It's an origional Hamilton trailer. First purchased by Hay Smith from the Hakataramea valley in the late 50's. Then sold to Phil Gard from Awatere station. The origional boat was a double skinned Hamilton with a 6 cylinder engine and a 3 stage Chinook. Now lost to history. The trailer was rescued by Tony Green from Kurow from the scrap heap. Quite a bit of work to make it fit Saucy Jane.
I can find no evidence in any photo's that the origional Saucy Jane was on a hanging trailer. I am still going to put Saucy Jane on (under) this trailer to make my project more authentic.
If any one knows of a ply jet on a hanging trailer the Heritage Trust is looking for one.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Matthewf/Norbert/TuiDog on July 02, 2020, 13:25:46 PM
great project
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: jet30mk1 on July 07, 2020, 21:28:46 PM

If you were ever looking at recreating a Briggs hull like Alf Dicks one in similar fashion for your Rainbow unit 024, Id be keen on one for my Rainbow unit 027, ( my hull is in similar condition to your Maui! ) Did you buy that from Jeff Holmes? If not, Jeff may have more info for you re that boat.

Like what you're doing!!

Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on July 08, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Hi Glenn,
I have been looking for the plans for the Briggs design with no luck so far. I called in at Irishman?s Creek on the slim chance they may have copies of the plans with no luck. Hamilton?s used to sell a Rainbow unit with a set of plans to build your own boat. I have photo?s of one such boat from North Canterbury with Queenstown Harbour Master Marty Black driving it. Failing finding any plans, Alfs boat is in storage for the Canterbury Museum near the airport. Can easily get some full measurements. I know another chap who wants to do a replica of that boat. Could be the start of a Fleet of ?Alfs?.  That?s what I have named my Alf project.  I have also been asked ?not? to strip my boat for the running gear but to leave it as it is for display purposes. Yes I bought the boat off Jeff Holmes much to my wife?s condemnation. I would leave it as it is if I could find another Rainbow and 100E engine.
Maybe someone who reads this post can help us out with Briggs plans and or a Rainbow Jet Unit. I do know of a few Rainbow units around but no-one wants to part with them ?yet?.
Jim 0212557272
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on March 30, 2021, 19:44:34 PM
Well I see that I havn't updated my post for more than 120 days so I guess an update is long overdue.
The engine is still not finished. Partly because the engine builder has had some health issues. he's back on deck now so should see some progress soon.
Havn't done anything on the trailer because I need to have the hull mostly done to fit it to the trailer. The trailer was for a slightly longer boat so I have to modify it slightly to fit Saucy Jane.
The name "Saucy Jane" is of course the name of the little blue experimental boat that got the whole world started on water jet propulsion. There is a boat called "Saucy Jane" which is an ex comercial jet boat in Tekapo. It's owned by Mark Morgan (Bill Hamiltons grandson) and is in pristine condition. Mark told me his boat is for sale so if you are looking for a pristine old classic then give Mark a call. He's pretty easy to find in Tekapo.
I am still going to put the name "Saucy Jane" on my boat as it's an authentic replica of the origional.
I'm very pleased that Hamilton Jet are still going to build the jet unit for me. It's part of their apprentices training programme for 2021.
The hull has seen some progress. It has now got two layers of 300 gramme fibreglass matting on the inside "and" outside of the plywood. I then put a thin layer of epoxy filler and sanded smooth so you can't tell it has been fibreglassed.
I went into Altex Coatings (owned by Resene)and between us picked the paint colours from the few photo's we have. It's a two pot epoxy paint.
so I guess photos tell a thousand words so I will download some photo's. I have to re size the photo's I have so they will follow this post.
If anyone has any comments or could help with any details I might not know about then feel free to reply or call me.
Jim L
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on March 30, 2021, 19:53:16 PM
Re sized photo's
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: hamjet41 on March 31, 2021, 15:17:34 PM
Masterclass workmanship JimJet; awesome project to follow even after 120 day comms hiatus.  B))T B))T B))T B))T B))T
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ Immediate Past President on March 31, 2021, 18:01:59 PM
Great project Jim. Keep the posts coming  b>
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on June 18, 2021, 18:09:29 PM
Feels like Xmas.
Picked up Saucy Janes engine today.
E93A Ford Popular engine from the late 40's. All 30.1HP.
We made some mods to make it a little more powerful but a lot more durable. Should be around 40HP.
It now has shell bearings, better valves, new valve guides, new pistons, chrome top rings, oil cooler through sump and adjustable tappets. Also has a Ford "8" head to lift compression to about 8.5 to one.
Put a cam grind more suitable to jet boat use.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on June 18, 2021, 18:17:13 PM
Couple of photos. Shows the manifold I made. Better flow and port matched.
Was going to paint engine British Racing Green and black. Would that be right?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: sausage on June 23, 2021, 13:57:11 PM
Great work there Jim, I'd go British racing green, you're gonna  get at least 0.2 more HP  with that color 
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Tones on June 23, 2021, 23:15:24 PM
Red or blue should give it 15 more needdies. Green is a curse colour.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on June 25, 2021, 19:18:13 PM
Did some research on google images. Most E93A engines were British racing green followed by black.
So British racing green it is and black trim. Will get the manifold ceramic coated. Black.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on July 02, 2021, 19:02:58 PM
Big day in the life of "Saucy Jane"
Engine lifted in. Making plates to front and rear of the E93A beast.
Now have to work out how to cool it. I am going to fit a water pump and a closed loop cooling system. Hopefully the coolant will help preserve the block from rusting out over time.
Are there any suggestions of how to set up the cooling system I am hoping to make a simple heat exchanger (small copper pipe inside a larger copper pipe). The sump has a cooling pipe that will have to be plumbed in as well.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on July 28, 2021, 10:43:18 AM
A little more progress with Saucy Jane. Still loads to do.
Currently looking for someone to build the jet unit. Hamiltons unfortunately far too busy. I totally understand with covid, and world wide supply chain issues so no problem. Will box on.
Heres the latest photo comparing the origional to my replica.
How did I do?
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Jimmy Jet on July 28, 2021, 12:17:30 PM
Beautiful work. Cooling system sounds good. I think most people work on approx 1 meter of 20/40mm copper per 100hp, so you won't take up much space!
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: Ross Goldsack - JBNZ Immediate Past President on July 29, 2021, 09:24:59 AM
Looks beaut
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: sausage on August 03, 2021, 17:00:27 PM
looks just brilliant great job
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on August 24, 2021, 19:34:42 PM
Lockdown so plenty of time on my hands. The workshop has never been so tidy.
Lifted Saucy Jane with the scales. Still heat exchanger, jet unit, steering and exhaust to put in. so probably another 100kg to add.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on September 07, 2021, 20:02:51 PM
Had a steering boss cast by Wickham foundry. They are really accommodating. Templeton Engineering machined it up and it's really easy to turn. Now have to work out what travel the cable will need to have for lock to lock steering. Then I can work out the required diameter of the steering "cotton reel boss"
Painted the inside of the hull. The colour is called "Driftwood" which I hope is not what this boat will finish up being.
We have made a start on the unit. Had some 32mm plate plasma cut to machine the top and bottom rings of the body of the jet unit.
Still waiting on price for the right angle gearbox that drives the whole thing. I'm preparing myself for some serious "wallet surgery" to get the gearbox built.
I've also put out a request for a wiring diagram for a 6 volt Ford 10 engine. If anyone has one I would be grateful for a copy.
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on December 20, 2021, 10:12:56 AM
Well it's been months since my last post but there have been things happening in the background.
As previously posted all the technical drawings for the unit have been very well drawn by Darren. And finally we have the first parts ready to weld up.
The following photos show the top and bottom rings of the body of the unit, already mounted in the welding jig. We want nothing to move during the welding process.
It also shows some of the other plates for the unit ready for lining up and welding in place.
Lots of hours and frightfully expensive but essential to get the quality if we are making an accurate copy of "Saucy Janes" original experimental unit.
The cogs have been made for the gearbox that sits on top of the unit. These are currently away for the special hardening process. Has to be done right or the gearbox would fly apart in very quick time.
I'll get more done in the new year. I hope to have it all together and hit the water in 2022. I'm not putting a date to have it ready by as the process will not be rushed in any way.
Have a happy Xmas to all.
I'm looking forward to 2022.
Jim L
Title: Re: Saucy Jane
Post by: JimJet on December 20, 2021, 10:15:47 AM
Couple more photo's